Tuesday, April 15, 2008
Blog #13 1945 to the Present
"Western liberalism won the Cold War". Assess the validity of this statement. Be sure to use examples of liberal ideas during this time frame and/or individuals or groups that were influential. (Remember to respond to the question in 6-8 sentences (yes it can be longer) and to respond to two of your classmates answers in 4-6 sentences. Do not just agree or disagree without defending or justifying your argument.) Think above and beyond the common answers that you may see. Be sure to challenge your classmates with controversial tactics, actions or selections. Good Luck!!!! Go Mustangs!!!
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20 comments:
I would have to agree with this statement. People can argue that the pressure given by the liberal countries to free the communist nations is what caused the war to end. Or internal struggles (Such as the Riots in Hungary, Poland, and Czechoslovakia). But when it comes down to it, these countries wanted more freedom and the liberal countries promised that.
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Well first of all liberalism means an individual is a self sufficient being. The allies which were the United States Britain France and at the end Russia. I think this is true because the allies were individual and were thinking about how they can end the war. Also because the other countries were communist and they weren’t really individual at all. I agree with djandy32 because all those countries did want freedom.
Liberalism was seen as individuals whose freedom and well-being were the main reasons for the existence of society. I disagree with this statement because western liberalism didn't necessarily win the Cold War, but moreso they only contained communism rather than abolishing it. The U.S. wanted to stop the expansion of communism. The Marshall Plan and the Turman Doctrine supported Western Europe by containing communism; helping them financially which assisted them to self-sustain. To an extend, Western liberalism wanted to accomplish getting rid of communism but they didn't successfully reach their potential goal by eliminating communism because it still exists today.
My responses:
I'll wait till more people respond :]
APEH students I believe many of you are almost on the right track. Remember the Cold War ended in 1991 and when you think of Western liberalism you have to remember that they are focusing on changing or influencing nations to think as they do (capitalistic and democratically). Think of the many nationalistic movements of throughout the years or the diplomatic conferences that arose to influence nations. Also take into account who flourished after the end of the Cold War. That may also lead you into the right direction (1945-91).
Yeah...I think I wanna mess with andres, so I'm going to so I don't really agree with the statement. Sure, andres, you can say that people in oppressed countries yearned for freedom, but that didn't win the cold war. When I say that, I use the fact that when Hungary and Czechoslovakia had their little uprisings, they were shut down by the USSR quickly and effectively, to say that the prospects of freedom didn't really change anything (besides, both revolts took place close to 40 years before the end of the cold war, so two insignificant revolts such as the ones you mentioned could not have possibly stimulated the end of the war).
OK so I disproved andres, now to my stance. I think that the USSR's crippled economy, and the Roman reminiscent loss of grip on the communist territory they controlled brought the war to an end. The proof is simple. Communism extensively flexes a government's economy beyond its reasonable limits, because basically, the country is responsible for EVERY BREATHING CITIZEN IN THE NATION. and when you look at the vastness of Russia's population and take into effect the size of its military then compare those figures to its economic stimulation, it's obvious that control can only be held for a definite amount of time. Count in the fact that the Russians had too much territory to oversee and were decidedly the king of communism -- meaning, that when revolts broke out, they felt responsible to crush them and put people back into their cookie boxes. i suppose constricting treaties like the molotov plan and other alliances created this sense of russian responsibility for the rest of the east.
i dont really understand pena hernandez's POV...its kinda esoteric and doesn't make much sense. i agree with the general idea that alyssababe disagrees with the question.
i agree with this statement.. western liberalism can be seen in gorbechev's reforms- they started adapting a more capitalist economy in response to the debt they acquired in the arms race. he also accepted the need for glasnots- something i would say is very liberal-like. another example of liberalism can be seen in the Solidarity- a trade union formed as the result of a workers strike. all of these factors eventually led to the fall of the soviet union
quick note: yeltsin was also pro-capitalism and once in office he transformed the government into a democratic one. i think his time in office was after the war though..
overalll i disagree with jordan. i see what you mean by communism cant support a country forever but russia turned to liberal ideas which i assume would put them on better terms with the U.S. which would ultimately subdue tensions between the two.
"these countries wanted more freedom and the liberal countries promised that." djandy, i think it was more the ideas of liberalism that promised more freedom- not the countries themselves
haha...smartphone.
Prompt:
"Western liberalism won the Cold War". Assess the validity of this statement. Be sure to use examples of liberal ideas during this time frame and/or individuals or groups that were influential.”
My Comment:
I agree with the statement. However, if I could revise it, it would be “the US government was better at influencing other nations to think as they do than the USSR during the Cold War.” For example, the “containment”, one of the American policies, was executed in 1947 to prevent further expansion of communism. In addition, the execution of the policy led the US to make commitments of support (economic and political) to those who appeared to be anti-communism around the world, which made the other anti-communist nations to buy the US (democracy/liberalism) even more. As far as I could remember, most of the plans and organizations that the USSR had established were just other versions of the Western nations’ plans and organizations that had already been established. For instance, the Warsaw Pact was another version of the NATO; the Molotov Plan was another version of the Marshall Plan, this would lead the Eastern nations that were under the communist rule to doubt the USSR’s communist power to protect and organize its colonies. Another reason the US was better at influencing other nations during the Cold War was because of the lie that Stalin made in the Yalta Conference of 1945. In the Yalta Conference, Stalin swore that he would allow free elections in Eastern Europe. However, in the same year, at the Potsdam Conference, he reneged what he had promised. This would create discontents and mistrustful relationships between the USSR and the Eastern Bloc. Some might say that the USSR was more influential because they spread communism to China, and etc., but the type of communism that the Chinese used in their government was different from the USSR’s.
Furthermore, the end of the Cold War in 1991 also meant the collapse of the Soviet Union and the communist rule (under Gorbachev), but the US and other western democratic nations continued to flourish after the Cold War.
Am I on the right track, Mr. Neal?-,-. I think my arguments are not that convincing?
My Responses:
I will respond later. =)
My Responses:
Anu: I agree with you when you said that under Gorbachev’s regime, the USSR was starting to adapt more liberal ideas. I did not notice that until you pointed that out..Thanks! I agree with you because he liberated the USSR’s economy by having them to walk toward to free market mechanisms. That was the only thing he could do during that time because their economy wasn’t doing very well while the democratic nations’ economy was flourishing.
Alyssababe: I just want to point out that:: Yes, communism still exists today (China), but it’s not the pure form of communism (Marxism) anymore. I do agree with you when you stated that, “Western liberalism wanted to accomplish getting rid of communism but they didn’t successfully reach their potential goal by eliminating communism,”. I was debating within myself whether or not the Western liberalism won the Cold War..xd
Daisy I would agree with about 95% of your argument. The Soviet Union did have an influence over other nations (indirectly though) with their communist rhetoric (example: Cuba). The U.S. did persuade others to change largely because of their economic promise that they offered to others. On the other hand the Soviets did have a large following which they needed to keep in check throughout the Cold War (ex. Hungary, Poland, etc.) All in all many of your arguments are right on track.
i dont really understand this too well o.0
but ill try my best :]
i think that western liberalism did win the cold war for the west because for the most part, people wanted change, although they werent always (or often) granted it. the western nations did promise these freedoms, and much more. i kind of relate it to like companies who do surveys to find out what their consumers want, and then adjust to match that. the companies who say that they will do things the way its always been done and has worked so far will not get very far in the race.
russia wasnt and isnt exactly stupid, and they new that they would have to eventually change a bit too. they copied many of the west's plans, such as the marshall plan, which they modified into the molotov plan. these kind of liberal ideas helped to ease the tension between the countries, especially since their idealogies were starting to compromise a bit.
you could say that eventually the communist nations conformed to western ideals~
andres, i agree with you to some extent, but that extents not too far >< i do agree that the people who wanted freedom didnt get it. however i dont agree with you on the part that internal struggles are the reason that the communist nations fell apart. as jordan mentioned too, the riots were long before the cold war ended, and it wasnt that big of a deal. it may have been a big deal to the hungiarian people or the czechs, but not to the ussr. they brought it down with relative ease.
alyssababe i agree with you mostly, but i disagree on some points, such as the communism thing. yes the west failed at completely getting rid of communism, but that wasnt the prompt, was it? :] the liberalism did win the war, so whether or not communism lived on is a bit irrelevant. also the truman plans and whatnot, they're not really "liberal", are they? they werent really big changes. they were just financial plans to help the countries fighting communism out.
blahh. tired
i would agree with this statement. I agree on the grounds that they won and accomplished their freedom from the communist nations. They wanted indvidual freedom and the communist state was not for the indivdualism. Liberalism has to do with the effort of self suffecdient being. (like claudia said) The Western Countries did win this War because they went for what they wanted as More Freedom and the liberalism gave them what they wanted and were told was theres
i agree with
Andres: it is true that those countries wanted their freedom and that the liberal countries promised it. i like the fact that you added the countries into the mix. but i didnt know and i was curious about the S.U?
i also agree with claudia: in the fact that liberalism is for the indvidual freedom. also with the fact that they were trying to find out how they could end the war. and being the communist factor they didnt want the individual freedom that the liberalist wnated
i believe that this statement is vaild. The overcontrolling strategies of the communist countries mainly USSR, is what made the liberalism of western europe seem so intriguing. When the countries wanted feredon they seeked the liberalism from the US britain and france. The ideals of liberty, equality, freedom of speech and assembly, and a represntative government were the goals that the countries wanted to achive but couldnt under communism. for example The marshall plan was set to aid the countries under the reign of communism. and put into act from more liberal countries. although the US and USSR did not fight directly (i believe, im not entirely sure.) most of the countries favored the liberal ideals of the US opposed to the USSR.
Responses:
i agree with jordan on the statement he made that the USSR's weaker economy played a part in the loss of thier infuence on the other communist countries. it looks as if once the other communist coutries saw that the USSR was failing they got frightened and tried to break away.
i agree with blondiepie when she states that liberalism gave the countries what they wanted, instead of being oppressed by the USSR
I agree with the statement that Western Liberalism won the Cold War. In the Cold War, the Containment Policy executed by America was used to prevent the spread of communism. The United States was perceived as anti-communist and influenced other nations. The diplomatic conferences such as the Yalta Conference and Postdam influenced nations. At the Yalta Conference, the U.S.S.R. pledged to hold free elections in Eastern Europe but in the Postdam Conference, Stalin broke that promise. Churchill set up British spheres of influence in Europe to encourage the Russians to do the same and lead a war. Gorbachev’s reforms are a form of western liberalism as well. He got ride of communist rule and sought to liberalize the economy. The glasnost as Anu mentioned was liberal because it was a policy of open discussion.
My responses:
Anu: I agree with your blog completely when you mentioned that western liberalism could be seen in the reforms of Gorbachev and the glasnosts.
Daisy: I also agree with you when you mention aboutb the Yalta and Postdam conferences and their influence on other nations.
I believe that is statement is valid. The collapse of communism began when the national legislature, Supreme Soviet, was replaced by the Congress of People’s Deputies. The monopoly of the Communist party was ended by freer elections and Congress began to demand for further reforms. A “chain” of reforms and independence took place in Eastern Europe. The election of Nikita Gorbachev by the Soviet Communist party promised reform. He was the cause of the collapse of Communism. Also the Berlin Wall, thought of as a symbol of Communist oppression, was dissolved. This was the beginning of the downfall of Communist Eastern German government.
My Responses:
Daisy: I completely agree with your response. The containment policy could very well support the prompt in that it was made to stop the spread of communism. I also agreed with you when you mentioned that the USSR had just made different versions of the western nations' plans such as the Marshall Plan because the Molotov Plan was made with the same intention.
Anu: I also agree with you when you mentioned that Gorbachev made reforms because he was after all the one that caused the collapse of Communism after he was elected as general secretary by the soviet communist party.
The statement that western liberalism won the cold war is in fact very correct. The satement itself can be interpreted many ways but, i myself interpret it to mean that the influences of countries such as Britain and the U.S. helped to win the cold war.
If you think about it, countries such as greece and turkey woyld not have been able to stand up against the Soviet Union without help from the Marshall Plan. Also if you look at the revolts in Hungary and Czechoslavakia you can see that the democratic ideaologies were opening the eyes of people living under the communist rule of the Soviet Union.
Responses:
I agree with what Daisy said about the U.S. being very influencial during this time period, but i would also like to add that Great Britain was also one of the forces fighting against communism, and that they also offered help to those countries opposing communist rule.
I also agree with Andres' statement about the freedoms that the Aliies offered to the countries who opposed communism. Countries such as Greece ans Turkey saw what the U.S. had to offer and thought that it was a better deal than what communism had to offer, it as is simple as that.
I agree with this statement. Liberalism was the emphasis on individual rights and equality. In the cold war these rights were taken from those countries that had a communist government. Such rights such as freedom of speech and thought were taken away from these people. After such oppression some countries decided to fight. For example the struggles of Czechoslovakia and hungary. Alex Dubek wanted his country to become free....but was quickly silenced by the soviet union. Thus brining fourth the support of the U.S. The U.S. sought to contain communism by holding conferences. At the yalta conference the Soviet Union promised to hold free election but that promise was broken in the Potsdam conference when Stalin denied it. A form of containment was the marshall and the the truman doctrine which gave support to the east european countries. As Anu stated "Solidarity was a trade union formed as the result of a workers strike, which led to Soviet Unions downfall".
Responses:
Anu: I agree with ur statement about Solidarity. Because without a stable economy a nation is a hazard. Just like a house without a stable foundation.
blondiepie: I also agree with u because liberalism was basically a set goal for those in communism. Those who can achieve this goal received what ever they wanted (freedom).
well i dont think that western liberalism won the war.
i say this because the ussr was mostly against the u.s, because it was really about who was more powerful basically and the way the russians wanted to prove that was with nuclear bombs, it was just a back and forth quarrel based on who had the most massive conventional and nuclear arms. even though it was not direct there were many threats. It was like political battles for the support of the world.
gorbechev's reforms led many soviets citizens to demand more freedoms and an immediate move to capitalism. When the ussr fell it broke into more smaller ethnic groups. They decided to end the war because they no longer had any money to buy and make these nuclear weapons and had no money for the people they could no longer buy or provide any consumer goods. But if anything gorbechevs's ideas and reforms did really open the minds of the russian people and now they felt they could think and control their own lives without someone constantly dictating it.
I dont agree with this statement because liberalism is a political or social way of freeing an individual,a government,or an economy.
I think that we didnt want the madness like the Cuban Missile Crisis, Berlin Wall,Vietnam, and Hungary to stop. We only saw that the Soviet Union was a threat to us. It was a war about ideas, not about power ,military,nuclear,or economic balance. It had nothing to do with Communism as a goverment,to move into democracy or capitalism.Obviously since the war ended before any of these things were resolved.With that i rest my case.
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