Blog #9 Week 2/01-11 (revised due date)
What impact did growing nationalism have on the status of women? What effect did liberalism have on the status of women? Discuss the similarities and/or differences.
(Remember to respond to the question in 6-8 sentences (yes it can be longer) and to respond to two of your classmates answers in 4-6 sentences. Do not just agree or disagree without defending or justifying your argument.) Think above and beyond the common answers that you may see. Be sure to challenge your classmates with controversial tactics, actions or selections. Good Luck!!!! Go Mustangs!!!
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19 comments:
Nationalism-
The role of a woman was to reproduce and instill cultural values in their kids. I think that would makes the role of a woman more important since they are the ones who teach kids the culture,history, and language of their region which unifies a country.
liberalism-
liberalism seems a bit more generous to women than nationalism. in john stuart mill's The Subjection of Women he defends women as men's equal. He also goes on to say that women should have the same rights as men and be allowed to vote and have their opinions heard in their government.
nationalism
-believed that that women's sole reason for existence was to produce the next generations of that culture. meaning that the future of the nation was codependent upon how responsible the women were in raising them.
liberalism
-during the revolutions of 1848 (in france) women fought for complete equality both in and out of the home. they succeeded for a while, but the equality was revoked later when the conservatives gained power. women were allowed to join the political clubs and criticize the government as with males, but did not receive suffrage.
anu i agree with you completely, especially on the nationalism idea that women were actually raising the children of the nation's precious society, i.e. english mothers would be reproducing english blood and should therefore be celebrated.
@_@
now that i think about it, i wonder if the role of women was elevated..it might have just put more pressure on them. maybe there was more pressure on them by society to be more perfect and raise perfect citizens of society
just a thought
I think that in the Nationalism point of view, women were kind of like, given a big responsibility. It all depends on how you look at it i guess. Although they did not have many rights, such as voting, etc, they had to raise the next generation. Their role was not just birthing the children, but also raising them to be successful/etc. However, it still was not as fair as liberalism.
The liberalism POV was that women fought for their rights, in the 1848 revolutions, and they won. They got their rights and the equality they deserved, but eventually it kinda died down, and once the conservatives took over, they were at the same place that they started at.
Anu, i agree with you that women had a big role in nationalism, but perhaps saying that they taught their children about the country and culture is a bit too much? I mean, there must have been someone else to do that. After all, the mothers arent teachers.
i will post another response once some other people comment
The growing impact of nationalism with women was to have them home to help with the childern. They were there to instill values of life,family and culture in to them. I would say that it is important that the women stayed home more and helped them with cultral vaules and other vaules they would need in life.
Liberalism had a diffrent impact on the roles of women. they were more vauled, more important. the women were equal not just some one who stayed home. i feel this is more important than nationalism, beacause equality is more important.
Between Nationalism and Liberalism there were a few diffrences, firstly the fact that with Liberalism they felt that women should be equal unlike Nationalism which felt they should be home to teach vaues to the childern. Similarites include the elevation of the role of women, them steping up in the latter of life.
i will be back to respond to what other people say i would like to hear what other people have to say before i write my response to my fellow classmates.
i will respond to the following:
"Anu, i agree with you that women had a big role in nationalism, but perhaps saying that they taught their children about the country and culture is a bit too much? I mean, there must have been someone else to do that. After all, the mothers arent teachers."
wow. ok, aside from the fact that mothers are the child's first teacher (they learn many of their mannerisms and values from them -- for example in asian countries children learn what is right and wrong from different expressions of approval/disapproval in their mother's faces from ages as early as one) due to nationalism, they would have the honor of being allowed to raise the next generation of frenchmen, englishmen, etc...so to say that mothers arent teachers and have no importance on the influence on the development of a child is quite ignorant.
@_@
Am I allowed to post?
If I am, here's my response:
Nationalism, as said by my peers, promoted women's role as a reproducer of patriots. Women's role, although perhpas not mentioned very often, served a great purpose in the face of nationalism. Women (for once in history) filled a role that could not be replaced and was held in highest regard because of the fruit of their labors: well-cultured, well-read, and patriotic members of society. In essence, nationalism was a step in the right direction on it's additude on women and the status they had. (Although, let it be known that nationalism, as most things of the time, did nothing to give women rights or a true change in social status...their role remained the same, only the amount of respect for the role changed)
Liberalism...well, liberalism was all about "broader political participation". That doesn't always include women. On a general scale, it seems to me most didn't think of women when thinking politics (but who does). Yet, looking at the nature of liberalism, it was more open to the idea of a change in women's status. (Again, we aren't talking rights/ suffrage/ whatever you want to call it...this is simply a step towards a change in women's status, their influence on the things around them.)
And I guess I'll leave it at that.
>_< hailey!!!!
okay, well david who else teaches their kids about culture but mothers? and even if it was someone else like a nanny or something like that it would be a WOMAN
Liberalism-
Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughters founded the Women's Social and Political Union in attempt to persuade the government into giving women the right to vote. By 1910 there was still no change in this matter so the members of this union tooks violent actions. It wasn't until 1918 that the government finally okayed British women to have the right to vote. This step was progression to having equality between men and women. In 1901 The National Council of French Women was first established w/o any encouragment towards women's right to vote. In 1919 however, the French Chamber of Deputies passed a bill whihch gave women the right to vote but 3 years later the French Senate vetoed the bill. French women didn't gain their right to vote until the end of WW II.
Nationalism-
Women's main "job" was to stay at home while taking care of their children while teaching them moral values, customs, traditions.
My Responses:
i agree w/ anu's statement that it was important for a woman to stay at home and be a teacher figure for their children because obviously kids are influenced immensely by their parents.
I also agree w/ tyler when she said that liberalism is very important for women because it allows them to be equal w/ men.
Liberalism
Mary Wollstonecraft wrote the The Vindication of the Rights of Women, which mentioned the rights of man compared to women. John Stuart Mill wrote The Subjection of Women which argued for equality of women. Women’s most advanced movement was in Britain. Millicent Fawcette led the National Union of Women’s Suffrage Societies. She believed that the Parliament would let women vote only if they could handle the responsibility. In France the National Council of French Women was organized. The French Chamber of Deputies passed a grant allowing women to vote but was later defeated. During the Revolution of 1848, Frenchwomen joined political clubs and demanded household equality.
Nationalism
Women’s role during Nationalism was to take care and raise children. The status of women remained the same by staying in the house and teaching their kids ethic values and about their culture.
Overall, the Liberalism and Nationalism were different in the sense that women were given more rights rather than their traditional roles of Nationalism.
Anu:
I agree with you on the part of Liberalism where you mention about John Stuart Mill. I also agree with the part where you say that Liberalism was more generous to women.
Jordan:
I agree with you on the part of Liberalism where women joined political clubs and fought for equality.
My second response...
Megha i agree with you that they were both pretty alike, but doesnt really seem like yu have much of an opinion on it. sounds more like yur just explaining it. anyways, although they were alike, and women did have many responsibilities in both, they were much different responsibilites, werent they? because in nationalism they raised the kids and everything, but in liberalism they had (for a while) a say in the voting thingy
Well David...
I never said that they were more similar than different. Women's status was completely different and had they had different responsibilities.
In terms of nationalism gave women the household roles; such as being the motherly firgure and teaching the children cultural aspects. women were expected to properly raise the children and to teach them correctly.
when it came to liberalism women fought for their rights to improve. it seems as though in liberalism women were more accepted as part of the society instead of just a housewife.
i think that liberalism was more beneficial to women because they were able to paricipate in social aspects of their community. they were given more freedom and voice. however it seems that through nationalism womenn could be more appriciated in raising the next generation and leaders of the world.
responses::
i agree with anu when she states that nationalism makes the women more important because they are the ones who have to rear the children and teach them about life values.
in response to davids comment that saying that women taught childern culture is exxagerated, i disagree. if women arent there to teach their chiildren who will? sure there are actual teachers but who will be there to teach the children before that stage in their lives. preschoolers dont star school completely empty. they know basic things that their mothers taught them.
My Comment:
- Nationalism
Nationalism is all about cultures and traditions. One of the characteristics of Nationalism is that nationalists believe historically cultures and traditions would bring about unity and common loyalty. As a result, nationalism limited the role of women to being a good wife and a mother. Their roles were to take care of their children and teach them about their cultures and ethic values. Women also had less freedom on the nationalism side. For example, in France, women were not allowed to gain possession of their wages, all the property of women were under their husbands’ identities. Obedience to husband was always required for women on the nationalism side. Divorce was difficult for women everywhere throughout Europe. Although all of the above seem cruel to women, but the middle class women seem to enjoy these restrictions. For example, because all of their property was subsumed in their husbands’ identities, they played an important role in the home life, they enjoyed the great domestic luxury, and comfort. Women symbolized first her dad’s then her husband’s success.
- Liberalism
Liberalism is more about equality, and individual rights. As time past by, women finally gain possession of the wages in 1907, married women own their property in their own rights (Married Women’s Property Act) in 1882, and etc. Because of the emergence of the liberal society, political feminism started to rise. “The Subjection of Women” published in 1869 by John Stuart Mill (liberalist), advocated the women’s rights, such as the right to vote. In Britain, Millicent Fawcett founded the moderate National Union of Women’s Suffrage Societies. Her husband was also a liberalist who supported the women’s suffrage.
- Similarity
Although nationalism and liberalism had different effects on the status of women, but both of these “–ism” didn’t change the purpose of women during that time period, give birth to the next generation (I am not trying to be offensive to those who believe women have other purposes in their life).
My Responses:
Niha: I agree with Niha when she said that as more and more actions were taken place for the women’s suffrage, equality between men and women started to progress. As more and more of these actions emerged, men might start to change their views on women. The emergence of liberalism changed the status of women a lot, giving the women more rights and voice in the government.
Anu & Abby: I agree with Anu when she says that women in nationalism play an important role because they are the ones who teach their children the culture, history and etc. Not only that, they are also the ones who are responsible for their children’s health and behaviors. I also agree with Abby when she stated in her response that the mothers taught their children basic things before they go to preschool. An example I could think of is their languages, the children had to learn to speak before going to school.
i pretty much agree with everyone who agrees on the idea of the role of women being given greater importance under nationalism. but i just wanna emphasize the thought that they weren't given a greater status- just more respect
Womens nationalism portrayed the importance of their role as mothers. As anu stated, women are the ones who tought kids culture, history, and language. My opinion is that its important that women reproduce and take care of their children teaching them them about who they are, what language they speak etc.
Liberalism on the contrary expressed a view that women and men were equal. Thus creating more freedom for women. But for those women who had more freedom, tended to neglect the next generation. On the other hand women were more comfortable and appreciated raising their children
i agree with anu about her statement that womens roles was to reproduce and instill cultural values in their kids. If women werent able to instill these values ....the next generations wud be totally different
looks like davids getting alot of heat so ill leave him alone. Umm i also agree with abby about how children needed to be taught a language before moving along in life. Without communication, people wud be no where!
It seems to me that Nationalism didn't affect most women as drastic as liberalism did. Sure, women now had to instill these ideas of their country of origin in their children but otherwise their ideas stayed the same.
As for Liberalism, i believed it changed the status of women drastically. Ideals of equality were being spread around in books such as John Stuart Mill's and through small talk.
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I agree with Anu that making the role of women was somewhat more important due to the fact that mothers are the caregivers and do teach children what they need to know. In this case, spreading nationalism would be easy for women.
I also agree with David Kim that during the Revolutions of 1848 women did gain some kind of rights but were, infact, later taken away by the Conservatives.
I THINK THE ROLE OF WOMEN DURING NATIONALISM WAS TO BE WITH THERE CHILDREN MORE. BECAUSE THE MOTHERSTAYED HOME THEY GOT TO EDUCATE THEM AND TEACH THEM VALUES. I THINK LIBERALISM WAS MORE LIBERATE WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY GOT TO PARTICIPATE IN MORE SOCIETY AND IN THERE COMMUNITY. I AGRREE WITH ABBY BECASUE IN LIBERALISM WOMEN DID FIGHT FOR THERE RIGHTS WHILE IN NATIONALISM THEY DIDNT REALLY DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I ALSO AGRREE WITH ANU BECAUSE THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN NATIONALIM WAS TO TEACH THERE CHILDREN CULTURAL VALUES AS WELL.
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